Why stannis is awesome

Stannis is pissed off, not only at the Red Wedding treachery, but now he has no choice but let Melisandre BBQ the bastard. Davos luckily takes action and frees Gendry, sparing his whipped king from having to do something really horrific. Look, I just like Stannis. This guy agrees with me:. I love your defense of Stannis here! Would he be a bad king? Would he be a great king?

No, not as long as Melisandre sticks around. I agree that Davos sort of keeps him in balance and stops him from swinging too far into the whole religious zealotry but he still makes some politically bad decisions because of his religion. Mainly in A Dance with Dragons. He could go either way where Martin left him at the end of the fifth book. Like Like. Thanks Carrie! I appreciate your feedback on my character defense of Stannis.

The character of Stannis reminds me a lot of the Roman Emperor Galba. He was one of the emperors in the Year of the Four Emperors. Everyone thought Galba would be an awesome emperor until he actually got to Rome. He had a PR problem, which can happen when you attack a legion of the former emperor and then decimate it afterward.

He was a dour, colourless sort of character like Stannis. Although he was an able administrator he was quickly depicted as a tyrant and a commander who believed so much in obedience that personal initiative was frowned upon. And that is exactly why he would make such a poor king. Kings must play politics — Robert could though he hated it. Stannis only sees what is his, and what is right. He is too brittle to make a good king. Stannis is even better in the books. It makes me sad he is so underappreciated.

I think your observation is spot-on, Alex. Stannis would probably be very impersonal and businesslike about it. Stannis Baratheon is the most interesting man in the HBO series. It has something to do with the mesmerizing performance of the handsome actor who plays him, combined with what a mystery he is. I also love watching The Hound, every nuance of the guy, and loved both portrayals of Daario Naharis, and the man who gave Arya three kills for saving his life, and dammit, ALL of them.

But anyway! I too, like many, keep finding myself feeling that Stannis, strictly speaking, most deserves to be King. Only the cruel red priestess keeps me sane on the matter. In other words, with her in the equation, Stannis ceases to be deserving, unfortunately. Yippie, only 5 days to go until Season Five begins!

What a colossal responsibility our passionate love lays on the shoulders of everyone involved in delivering this show, and then more show, and more, and then more. Like Liked by 1 person. Felt great. Thank YOU! Hey Patrick well done, another in your web of well-thought-out and amusing articles on GOT. There is much to mine in the series and you have clearly done your homework. For my part, I agree with some earlier comments about Stannis being brittle.

A ruler of Westeros needs cunning and guile to deal with the inevitable coterie of slithy toves who will cluster around him. I agree on his finer points and they would serve him well in a better time and place. PS I read the books as well. Although it has zero benefit. He pardon's Davos Seaworth because he see's that he is an honorable man who only was a smuggler to provide for his family and himself. Stannis never takes advantage of the small folk the way every other potential King still living has.

He does not whore, steal, or take undue reward. He never forces his King's men to change religions and worship the lord of light. He doesn't approve of Axell Florent's plan to slaughter the small folk of Claw Isle because he considers them innocents.

Though there Lord a traitor. He wants the Wildlings to settle The Gift, he doesn't slaughter them, instead offering them safety and food in return for there service or allowing them to leave. Stannis even tries to send back Fake Arya to Jon thinking she is his sister so they can reunite.

Amber, I love you:D. Is the book stannis much diffrent from the show I'm going off book Stannis as well. I think in the show they imply that Stannis and Mel have sexual relations, which I never really got that impression from the books.

It's difficult for me to figure out if that is correct, or if thats just another thing they added in for drama. Amber wrote: "I disagree that he is incapable of empathy. The ONLY reason that he didn't is because he wasn't convinced that it would work. Patchface means nothing to him one way or another. In fact, it benefits him to keep Shireen placated. He pardoned Davos because he is the only person that he can fully trust and he had no reason to kill the man after he saved hundreds of people lives, including his wife and child!

He takes advantage of the smallfolk by continuing to wage war for the Iron Throne. He doesn't care how many people suffer and die, as long as he can get "what is his by right". He doesn't have to force his men personally, he has his red witch to do it for him. It would serve him no purpose to kill the small folk of Claw Isle. The only reason that he is at the Wall is because Mel convinced him of The Great Other, and he knows that he stands a greater chance of securing the IT with the North behind him.

The Gift is NOT his to decide what to do with it. He had the nerve to get pissed off at Jon because he refused to give part of the Wall to Stannis' Southron knights. He also knows, the wildings in the gift means less wights to kill later on. He cares about Fake Arya so much that after all of the abuse that she as endured at the hands of Ramsay Snow, that he wants to marry her off to some other jerk.

He owes Jon. Amber wrote: "I'm going off book Stannis as well. It's difficult for me to fig That is how she takes his essence and how produced the shadow assassin. He is skin and bones now and she is trying to gain Jon's essence as well. Yeah, I still don't get why people hate him though. If were going from book stannis, all he's every done is be loyal to his right and done what's best for the kingdom. Rose wrote: "Yeah, I still don't get why people hate him though.

If were going from book stannis, all he's every done is be loyal to his right and done what's best for the kingdom" He doesn't give a crap about what is best for the Kingdom. If that were the case he would have backed Renly and served as Hand. Apr 04, PM. So because something benefits you, you can't have empathy? In which case, Dany falls into this catagory as well, along with everyone else vying for the throne.

I'll try to respond in order, hope this doesnt get confusing, for all of us! Considering something is hardly a sin. He considered burning his nephew, he never actually did it. I won't condemn him for that. Dany actually did sacrifice her own son for personal gain - along with her beloved Husband hardly fault her there though and a slave she saved but than offered no empathy.

I think you are right, Patchface means nothing to Stannis. I don't know if placate is necessarily the word I would use though. Stannis provides food, clothes, and shelter for Patchface because he is his daughters companion. I think Stannis recognizes the fact that Shireen is different and Patchface is one of the few people who don't and won't judge her because of her deformity. So out of kindness, he keeps the guy around.

He also knows that Patchface would probably be a different person if he hadn't been involved in that shipwreck. I think he has some pity for the fool. He pardoned Davos because he saved them during the seige, not because he trusted him. Trust was built between them all the way through Clash of Kings leading up to him becoming Hand after Axell Florent's death due to his constant honesty despite possible retribution.

Stannis wasn't gaining anything by pardoning Davos when he did it. He just ended up gaining an actual friend by chance. He's not the one making the small folk suffer, Cersei is the one that's doing that along with Jaime.

She knows her children are not Roberts, she knows they have no right to the throne. Thats a complete misappropration of blame. The Lannisters are far harsher and worse rulers. There refusal to admit or see that, is not Stannis' fault. I'm pretty sure Davos is the one who convinced Stannis to go the wall. Not Mel. Davos did think it was good political move, but they also both see the seriousness of the Nights Watch.

So he Stannis got a little pissed at Jon for not letting him fill castles that the Nights Watch weren't even using. Stannis did help them, and he didn't take that back or anything. Do you want him to not push for anything? I mean, if he could get something like that it would do his cause some good, I don't fault him for asking. I think Jon did the right thing denying him, but even after, Stannis still left some support at the Wall. That's actually, still a shit ton better than anyone else did for them the Nights Watch or offered to do.

As for Arya, girls get married off. That's how things roll in this story. Not that it is my way of thinking personally, but Stannis probably see's his offer to marry her to another man a kindness. Otherwise, she pretty much will be an orphan since they think she is Arya Stark without a single family member seeing as how Jon's Lord Commander to take care of her or arrange another marriage for her. She is deflowered and was married to a man most are disgusted by, lining up any highborn for her to marry is a difficult task.

I'm not saying thats the right way to think, but thats a mans way of having empathy for woman in this time period. As for the Sex, I think that is correct. It's only implied in the books, not directly said, but since they make it that way on the show, I will wager that's how it works. Probably the thing I dislike most about Stannis are these actions. I don't know if Renly would have necessarily been a better King, but he would have been better loved by the people.

There's no ruling out though that what Stannis thinks would be best is him on the throne. I don't see why that is so bad though, obviously everyone else is thinking this as well. Plus, at the time he participated in Renly's death, Renly was, infact, a Traitor no matter what, he had zero right to the throne and Stannis was convinced he himself was Azor Ahai.

What would be better for the kingdom than that AA as King? I don't feel I can fault that line of the thinking, even if it is a bit arrogant. What highborn isn't arrogant? I guess it all really depends on how you read it and who you support.

How are they better than Stannis? I love debates! Considering burning an innocent child for any reason is a despicable and shows what a hardhearted person Stannis is. His trusting Davos was well before anything that we saw.

That happened during Robert's rebellion and we see the results of that in ACoK and in later books. Honestly, the throne is Aegon's, if he is really Aegon, or Dany's. Robert was a usurper and traitor, along with Stannis. You are right about Davos convincing Stannis. However, that goes to show that he is no better than any of the others because he had to be convinced to give aid to part of "his" realm.

The only reason that he is doing it is for gain, not because it's the right thing to do. Even Robert didn't want Stannis as hand because is all black and white.

He wanted to ban brothels simply because he doesn't like women or care about sex. Joffrey and Cersei Lannister are horrible at ruling. Tywin and Tyrion were more than capable of running the realm fairly and competently. The realm was peaceful and prosperous with Aerys as king " by figure head only" with Tywin actually ruling Westeros. I won't give Stannis brownie points for not tolerating rapists, because he shouldn't.

The market for those is- by all accounts- discreetly booming. This is great stuff here. Thank you. If someone could re-work logistics it would be Stannis with the help of Davos. What has Roose ever done, really? Further, as a matter of personal taste, super-villain show-Ramsay just does nothing for me.

Stannis is smart enough not to underestimate him. Unless he is…. Agreed with WPA. Ramsay is apparently a skilled warrior and a tactical genius in the show, neither of which is true in the books. And where was Roose in Episode 10??

If they were going to have the Boltons defeat Stannis, they should have at least showed Roose in the moment of triumph. Instead we got more gloating sadism from Ramsay. Beniof and Weiss seem to suffer the problem many producers have when adapting books. In the film adaptation of The Main in the Iron Mask, the ending had the good guys win with Philippe, the good twin, switching places with Louis XIV put in the iron mask passed off as Philippe.

In the book, Louis wins and Philippe is sent back to the dungeons. Beniof and Weiss completely miss the points Martin is trying to get across, and fill it with the Hollywood tropes that drove Martin to write the series in the first place. I like your article but one nitpick. Besides, if it is a stone dragon, what would the lie be?

It is a real dragon? Besides, the lies being slain are supposed to have big political impact like Aegon being fake and Stannis not being AA. Here is my take: a dragon in prophecy usually refers to a Targaryen as hinted in Dunk and Egg. But the dragon is connected to Stannis as Azor Ahai, that lie has been already addressed, and again, the issue of redundancy.

The lies point to three individuals or cases. Each of threes presented present three separate cases. On top of that, she sacrificed Alester for good winds. She would likely find a reason. Why would Dany need to be given a vision of Stannis twice? In the trios of prophecies given, with bride of fire and daughter of death, each prophecy in each trio deals with a separate person. For example, in daughter of death we had Viserys, Rhaego and Rhaegar.

The visions in each group are supposed to be unrelated. Possibly through Jon Snow as Azor Ahai. No love for Aegon with greyscale as the stone dragon breathing shadow fire Blackfyre?

Presumably menstrual bleeding meaning she can bear children again. Or the fact that she has been riding on a god knows how hot dragon which has left her blistered for an undisclosed amount of time. But yes it could go either way.

It is my understanding that most women of child-bearing age who have problems with infertility still experience a regular menstrual cycle, so Dany experiencing this is no indicator.

In her last ADWD chapter, Dany confirms that this is case for her by trying to remember when the last time it happened was. Stannis might call a Great Council to determine succession. He might do his duty with his wife more or would sire a child elsewhere out of duty. So, in reading this rule of threes it leads me to wonder. Is the second failure of Stannis, repeating almost the same foolishness of Renly attempting to be a king but never deserving it though admittedly the circumstances are very different but at the core the same , that we are now lead to our last and final iteration of the attempted crowning?

Perhaps this was just GRRM needing to satisfy his rule of threes so that we now are able to see our last, presumably successful, attempt at the Iron Throne? Though honestly I could just see this being another way of GRRM throwing off the scent of his true intentions by making us think that he is a rule of threes junky.

What evidence does he have of any foul play? This is why I like reading your work Steve, you just plain get it. Stannis has all the makings of a tragic Shakespearean-style anti-hero. Benioff and Weiss can. Minus the psycho part. One of the best actors on the show. At least taking out so much of his storyline let us see more of the brilliant Dorne storyline, with not-at-all Narmy dialogue. I am also a longtime reader and new poster.

Thank you, Steve for all the great analyses. This one is the best. And I totally agree with the last sentence, very well put. There was nothing about the format of the show that demanded this. Spot on. And Ramsay is just part of the machinery of television. A status quo was developed in the last four seasons wherein Joffrey is a monster we all love to hate and Sansa is his hapless victim. Given the viewing figures to deliver what is popular, they attempted to recreate that with the stakes raised even higher with Ramsay as a terminator and Sansa his unwilling bride.

Of course fans quickly got bored of it, an overly quick reaction not helped by a lot of the details that make the Sansa chapters important to read got cut. The enormous viewing figures seem to imply that this is exactly what the show audience wants. GOT has become the show in which bad things happen to good people — fans film their friends reactions, talk about how cruel GRRM is in interviews and back slap each other about how intelligent and different GOT is for subverting expectations.

So much of it has been discarded now in pursuit of the next shocking moment, to keep people talking about the show and to keep viewing figures sky high. All that matters is the impact of the moment. Look at the reviews — look at the blogs. This is the attitude that millions of show watchers have.

And it will only get worse. The most common reaction I saw to Sansa in the show, much like Sansa in the books and a little more justified was that people were sick of her. And what was the reaction that I saw to Sansa in the North, especially after season 4 ended on the implication that she was learning to be a political actor herself? Irritation with her plot. And yes, events like this get people talking.

And, in my case and in the case of people I personally know, ultimately leaving. Is that double negative meant to be a positive? Villain Sue, thy name is Ramsay. I got the impression that Thoros was just praying over Beric, and it accidentally revived him — not deliberately performing a magic ritual, at least the first time.

So Melisandre may well consider using her evil magicks to resurrect Jon Snow, but might not know that this prayer could work also. Thoros passes it to Cat who passes it to Jon. No one will argue that it is at least a hard to accept that Stannis would do such a terrible thing for the sake of gaining something so relatively trivial as a chair made of swords.

The way I see this is as the difficulty of adaptation from the page to the small screen. Of course they had to crop the story in a way which makes it very different from the books.

Note that, though the arcs of Dany and Jon and Cersei are notably different than they were in the books, they are definitely more spot on than that of Stannis.

And like it or lump it, a TV show is about ratings. That is just the nature of the beast. So in summation of the longest single paragraph in posting history, I feel for Stannis fans truly. I can see where if you clung to the hope of him being a bigger player in the game of thrones, you were disappointed. Now which would be more disappointing?

That long of a wait, or the loss of some character depth for a character who really ended up being a device for progressing the story toward the real purposes of its existence? This being said maybe Stannis is alive and will chive on as the greatest leader and ruler that Westeros has ever and will ever know. Well I do understand your sentiments on that. I can also see how people see it as being rushed.

So though I see why people are displeased, I can chalk it up to necessary evil. They used two seasons of the show 3 and 4 to cover one book SoS. Then they used one season of the show 5 to cover two books FfC and DwD. Reblogged this on Guru Dude. George should have finished his books in the past 20 years and then they would have the completed picture to draw from rather than, as you mention, bullet points.

Or, HBO should have waited til the notoriously late book series was finished before starting production. Let me first say that I enjoy your analysis and am not disappointed this time. Indeed, you talk a lot about how the scenario that you sketched out would be a great tragedy, and it would be.

I believe he is dead and they are done with him,but it is far from official. All the supposed confirmations,are in far from confirming his death. I believe he is dead,but it is so not official. BTW,Stephen Dillane was awesome. They tried so hard to make Stannis uninteresting but he was so good that he made Stannis popular.

I guess you book readers imagine him while reading…Sean Bean category. Peter Dinklage is and always will be Tyrion. I have to mentally make him much uglier when I read, but it never sticks. Show Daario has nothing whatsoever to do with book Daario. The Daario in the book has crazy died hair and a gold tooth and is super flamboyant. Show Daario wears brown a lot. I keep thinking of Stephen as Stannis.

He and Charles may have been the two best actors. That makes it more unfortunate what they did with Stannis as he was so well portrayed. Same with Jon and many of the other characters, despite hair color with the Starks and Tullys. I think they had this problem with Daenerys and Tyrion as well, and have for a long time. Tyrion has always had far more unsavory aspects than a simple propensity for prostitutes, and by the time of ADWD he seems to be driven largely by anger and spite.

Very few characters exist to really challenge her and every character who supports her does so for pure reasons, rather than various interests having different reasons for supporting her, many for unsavory reasons, as in the books. Not only did they ignore the basic structure of a tragedy, they also ignored basic logic. What if the stone dragon where grayscale? Sacrificing Shireen backfires in that it unleashes her dormant greyscale into a full epidemic that Dany then somehow exorcises?

With the Winterfell plot going as fast as it is a lot of fans have problems with this too it seems like Sansa will have to be at least near Winterfell for the start of […]. Agree with your post almost entirely. Instead could it be that Stannis sacrifices his daughter fighting Daenaerys?

That being said do we actually know if they want to commit genocide towards the human race? Personally my jury is out on them.